Your own political elite don’t want independence because they love swanning around as Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer.Although the Prime Minister was born here I don't think that he sees himself as Scottish. On the other hand Gordon Brown and people like Robin Cook, John Reid and Michael Martin are certainly Scots. I think that Dr Starkey is correct: Scotland won't choose to become independent until its leading politicians and a sizable proportion of the business community support the idea. Whether it's a good idea is quite another matter.
A libertarian returns to Scotland
"Freedom and Whisky gang thegither"
- Robert Burns
Monday, 18 October 2004
Scotland "not important" - English television presenter
The well-known historian David Starkey has caused a bit of a row over his claim that Scotland is "not important". Remarks of this sort are a little tedious but there is a great deal of truth in this:
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David Malloch
"But Ireland IS "a moderate European nation", and the unionists WERE wrong by instilling a fear of "Rome Rule". Look at the horrific consequences of the unionists' Partition."
No the Unionists were right, Ireland WAS - for many years - preistridden, therefore their claims WERE not unjustified, and those Irishman who thought Ireland would be no different from France, Spain or Italy WERE wrong.
23 October 2004, 12:54:24 GMT+01:00
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David Farrer
David
I'll try and cover this in the next few days.
23 October 2004, 10:34:34 GMT+01:00
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David Rossie
David, how do you feel about Scottish independence as an end within itself? Leave aside for the moment any practical considerations with arriving at that point.
22 October 2004, 00:24:59 GMT+01:00
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An Englishman
HANL to you too, BTW.
21 October 2004, 13:04:56 GMT+01:00
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An Englishman
Stuart,
As soon as I get 'em, I'll sign and return 'em.
21 October 2004, 13:04:19 GMT+01:00
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Stuart
David
But Ireland IS "a moderate European nation", and the unionists WERE wrong by instilling a fear of "Rome Rule". Look at the horrific consequences of the unionists' Partition.
Expectations are often fulfilled. But not in the sordid disunited kindom.
Dear "An Englishman"
Our solicitor will pop the papers in the post. Have a nice life.
20 October 2004, 22:27:23 GMT+01:00
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David Malloch
"He reminds me of the Tory (an in-law) who told me that if Scotland became independent we would turn into a new Bosnia. She appeared to genuinely believe this."
Many Irishman in the pre 1922 period thought Ireland would be a moderate European nation one freed from Westminster rule, they dimissed the "Home Rule Mean Rome Rule" mantra of the Unionists as a load of balls.
Thats not an argument against by the way, merely pointing out that things do not always match our best expectations.
20 October 2004, 18:28:41 GMT+01:00
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An Englishman
Stuart (presumably Dickson),
So do we.
20 October 2004, 18:02:39 GMT+01:00
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Stuart
Neil makes an unsophisticated and inarticulate analogy.
He reminds me of the Tory (an in-law) who told me that if Scotland became independent we would turn into a new Bosnia. She appeared to genuinely believe this.
I would not put any money on the Kingdom of England "offering only their future good wishes". The Czechs displayed a maturity which our husband lacks.
We'd like a divorce please.
19 October 2004, 06:48:28 GMT+01:00
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Neil Craig
I am somewhat worried that we may find ourselves accidentally independent by the Slovakian method.
After the fall of communism the Slovak communists reinvented themselves as statist nationalists. Thhreatening to choose separation unless the richer Czech regions gave them a larger grant. When persuaded the majority of slovaks to vote on this programme of extortion they found a determined Czech republic offering only their future good wishes.
The Quebecois do a similar thing but because Canadian territory would be non-contiguous without them they are in a stronger bargaining position.
The parallel with various Scots politicians, not merely the SSP ("our electoral promises arn't costed because whatever it is we will just demand Westminster pay") is obvious.
18 October 2004, 23:44:43 GMT+01:00
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Alastair Ross
I think it is safe to assume that the Prime Minister does not consider himself Scottish. Perhaps, like a number of old Fettesians, Mr Blair knows the story of the somewhat chippy Edinburgh tour bus guide who, whilst driving past the school's impressive facade, observed : "And on your left, ladies and gentlemen, stands the famous Fettes College, where they take wee Scots laddies and turn them into Englishmen".
18 October 2004, 21:08:34 GMT+01:00
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Stuart
Scotland will become independent when a majority vote for independence in a referendum.
18 October 2004, 11:05:42 GMT+01:00
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